BIBLE AND THEOLOGY FORUM






Correct Addy: http://bible-forum.invisionzone.com/

is the new site, but if you click on that link, it may not go there. But if you put that addy http://Bible-Forum.InvisionZone.com in your URL box, it will go there.  The Invisionzone forum has many categories of Bible & Theology with special forums for each.  This Bravenet site here is the old general forum site.  We may eliminate that invision site because it is expensive and is not getting enough traffic.

Welcome!  You are at BibleAndTheology.com, which is the general forum for BibleAndTheology.org.  Persons are invited to post on Bible and Theology (widely interpreted).  Some postings may be chosen to be reposted on BibleAndTheology.org.  Give & receive love here. If you post here, please do not use "Anonymous" or the like. Choose your own screen names, but do not use one that you know is already being used by someone else. Please: 

1. You may debate with any ideas posted, but do not post objections to the topic, style, spelling, use of capital letters, or grammar of anyone's posting.  For example, you may debate whether the moon is made of green cheese, but kindly refrain from reviling a poster by telling him that it is politically incorrect to discuss green cheese.   

2. Do not post complaints or attacks vs. other posters.  

3. No obscene language,cuss words, or blasphemy may be used.   

4. Send complaints privately by e-mail to NellPatKay@hotmail.com.  If your posting is deleted, it could be because it violates forum rules or is just chosen for a short run on the forum.  

  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . If you want the password, register your screen names by e-mail, as password may be needed again if problems arise on the Forum. CHECK OUT THE search function, which is good: it checks the content of the postings.


Note that if you paste onto the Forum, for some reason Bravenet may change your quote marks and apostrophes into something else, like little boxes or funny U's.   Thanks for coming, participating, and for showing love . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Also try out our new site:

http://bible-forum.invisionzone.com/

BIBLE AND THEOLOGY FORUM
Start a New Topic 
Author
Comment
ISAIAH 9:6 EVERLASTING FATHER OR FATHER OF PEPETUITY? Abi'ad = ‎אביעד

ISAIAH 9:6 EVERLASTING FATHER OR FATHER OF PEPETUITY? Abi'ad ‎אביעד

This one verses is misconstrued by some heretics to deny the Trinity & have a modal or functional trinity, where 1 God plays 3 roles, instead of having 3 distinct egos within the one essence of God. There is a ton of evidence distinguishing God the Father from the Son in their interactions. Thus this 1 vs shud be construed consistently w/ that ton, and it certainly can be construed consistently.

INTERESTING INTERPRETATION BY A BLOGGER ON ISA 9:6:
"My Father is Everlasting"

"I was thinking the about names that begin with אב (ab) in the Hebrew scriptures. Some of the more popular names are Abram/Abraham and Absalom. Hebrew names have meaning. In this case, Abram is “exalted father,” Abraham is “father of a multitude,” and Absalom is 'my father is peace.'

"Absalom is really the shortened form of the name Abishalom; the shortened Absalom drops the י (Hebrew yod). Among many other names, a few that have the yod are Abimelech (אבימלך), Abinadab (אבינדב), Abiezer (אביעזר). They mean “my father is king,” “my father is noble,” and “my father is help,” respectively. The addition of the yod functions as a possessive suffix (אבי = “my father”).




"When אבי is not used as part of a name, the yod functions as a construct marker connecting two words (generally understood in the sense X of Y, such as אבי כנען [="father of Canaan" {Gen 9:18}]). My initial observations have found אבי to stand alone, with a pronominal suffix, or joined to another word with a maqqef when it is in the construct form."

------------------------------





The blogger I quoted was scratching right where I was itching. Abi = my father. But he says the yod (i at end of Abi) also can be a construct marker. Construct is the Hebrew way of doing the possessive case, whereby instead of putting 's on a noun like John's book, or instead of adding a preposition, like "of" (The book of John), Hebrew modifies what wud be the object of the prep (Book-Construct John) to say John's book. 





We modify the possessing item; Hebrew the possessed item. We use a possessive case; Hebrew uses a Construct object. -- One could call this "the possessed case." Abi + 'ad, then would mean "Father of perpetuity (eternity). We modify the possessing item; Hebrew the possessed item.
This may be the only passage that I prefer the Douay-Rheims translation on, "Father of Eternity."
Christ fathered the ages of eternity (Hebrews 1:2).





So while I like the rendering of that blogger, the problem with "My father is everlasting" or "my father is eternal" is than 'ad is a noun (eternity), not an adjective (eternal).
& we should go with the Hebrew grammar, rather than our "likes."

Isaiah 9:6 says that a name of the coming child/son, the Messiah (who would be the Lord Jesus) was "mighty God, and ‎אביעד = abi'ad or abi 'ad. This is commonly rendered "everlasting Father." But the Word for Father is Ab and the word for perpetuity (or eternity) is 'ad. "Everlasting Father" is not a good translation. 'ad is not an adjective = "everlasting."





‎אב = aleph bet = ab = Father. But in Isaiah 9:6 we have a yod after the ab (Abi); yod is like i or y in English. Abi = my father. (Putting a yod on the end of a noun adds the pronoun "my" to a noun, like Abishalom for My father is peace. But harldly anyone seem seems to translate. that yod as my in this verse and render abiad (written as one word in my Hebrew Bible) as "My father of perpetuity." As for me, 
I take the expression to indicate that the Lord Jesus fathered eternity.

Heb 1 says that the Lord Jesus was the one through whom the ages were made. I am perplexed as to why older translations rendered aion as world instead of as age. And I think that Hebrews 1:2 is what Isaiah 9:6 is referring to.

So are as major translations are concerned, the only one I know which gets at the best interpretation of abi'ad is the Old Douay-Rheims (translation of the Vulgate) has "the Father of the world to come." Another translation which brings out the construct relationship of Ab and 'ad is "father of booty." Booty is another accepted meaning of 'ad.