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Re: The Vatican Is a Christian State?

Well Arch, I hope you are having a good day.

I don't find anything in the Bible to forbid contraception. But agreeing or disagreeing on that will not damn anyone to Hell.

Since the Bible has a big doctrine called "separation," (be not unequally yoked, etc.), I am forced to make some kind of decision about whether or not I believe someone is a brother in Christ or not. I accept anyone regardless of denomination who defines Christ adequately (not as Michael the Archangel, etc.) and who trusts Him as only & sufficient Savior. Christians agree on the basics, but disagree on an awful lot of the details. People in all denominations (except possibly cults) disagree on many things, even within their groups.

In the literal sense of "catholic," of course the word begs the question. You can't be in the Body of Christ without being a Christian. However, I don't regard everyone in any denomination as a Christian. I was raised in a latitudinarian mainline Prot denomination, which IMHO was mostly filled with unsaved persons playing church, not real Christians. And IMO the papal system is so shot through with idolatry & denial that Christ is the only & sufficient Savior, that I regard it as by and large a religious organization of unsaved non-Christians. That is not to say that there is no one in it who is not a genuine Christian, however.

Give some thought to what you are doing when & if you bow before a statue & pray to it, likewise if you pray to some saint as if the saint were omnipresent (attribute of God). YHWH is a jealous God.

Validation is what people really seek who say that salvation is by works. That is not salvation; one is seeing for God to approve of what one does, not to be saved from what one does.

Re: The Vatican Is a Christian State?

Now that the subject has come up, let's tackle the topic of idolatry.

YOU claim that the Catholic Churh endorses idolatry and worship of saints, statues, Mary, etc.

The Catholic Church maintians that it does not and never has.

Off of this denial alone, we know that the RCC does not.

If I say that you worship Ba'al while you hold that you do not, you would be correct. So why would the RCC not be correct in this case.

If I say that you are a pagan while you hold that you are not, then obviously you would be correct.

However, I will continue as though the RCC's denial could not be trusted (though it would be ridiculous to assume this).

Idoaltry is the worship of an image or what it represents other than the true God.

Of course, the image itself is not worshipped and neither is the thing it repesents. Only God is worshipped, all else is venerated.

Any Catholic or Christian who ACTUALLY worships the saints is not a true Catholic or Christian.

Veneration of the saints and Mary is not necesary, but rather optional and simply recommended so as to form a better life of your own modeled after that of a holy person.

Saint Worship is Idolatry

Re: The Vatican Is a Christian State?

Now that the subject has come up, let's tackle the topic of idolatry.

YOU claim that the Catholic Churh endorses idolatry and worship of saints, statues, Mary, etc.

Of course papists deny idolatry because they know that idolatry is forbidden by God. So they won't put that word to what they do. The fact that a sinner denies his sin, is quite common, & it certainly does not relieve the charge of sin.

Papists bow before statues & address saints the way Christians address God, treating them as omnipresent, which is an attribute of God.

You cannot exculpate the practice by trying to play with vocabulary, venerate vs worship.

The way the papists use statues & pray to saints is no where in the Bible.

Thou shalt have no other gods before Me.