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BIBLE AND THEOLOGY FORUM
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OLIVET DISCOURSE Mat 24; Mark 13; Luke 21

Whereas Mark & Mat have the Beginning of Travail & the Great Tribulation, Luke differs by adding in the Destruction of Jerusalem & the Times of the Gentiles. Luke has a broader scope.

And as some spake of the temple, how it was adorned with goodly stones and offerings, he said, 6 As for these things which ye behold, the days will come, in which there shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. 7 And they asked him, saying, Teacher, when therefore shall these things be? and what shall be the sign when these things are about to come to pass?

In Mat & Mk I find no information on "when…shall these things be?" as applicable to the Roman attack on Jerusalem ~ AD 67-70.

FIRST THE LORD DESCRIBES WHAT IS CALLED IN MAT THE SIGNS OF HIS COMING & OF THE CONSUMMATION OF THE AGE

1) False Christs (cf. Seal 1, Conquerer on White Horse)

8 And he said, Take heed that ye be not led astray: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am he; and, The time is at hand: go ye not after them.

2) WAR (cf. Seal 2, Red Horse)

9 And when ye shall hear of wars and tumults, be not terrified: for these things must needs come to pass first; but the end is not immediately. 10 Then said he unto them, Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom;

3) Earthquakes

4) 11 and there shall be great earthquakes,

5) Famines (cf. Seal 3, Black Horse)

and in divers places famines

6) Pestilences (cf. Seal 4, Green [gangenous?] Horse)

and pestilences;

7) Signs from Heaven

and there shall be terrors and great signs from heaven.

BEFORE ALL THESE THINGS:

Note that the chronological order is jumped. Here is a big flashback. I think this jumps back to the time before AD 70. At any rate the time is jumped back before the false Christs, War, Earthquakes (etc.) mentioned, things which Matthew calls the Beginning of Travail. all these things are the beginning of travail.

I take this beginning of birthpangs to be that of the bringing forth of revived Israel.

12 But before all these things, they shall lay their hands on you, and shall persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues and prisons, bringing you before kings and governors for my name’s sake. 13 It shall turn out unto you for a testimony. 14 Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate beforehand how to answer: 15 for I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to withstand or to gainsay. 16 But ye shall be delivered up even by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolk, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death. 17 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name’s sake. 18 And not a hair of your head shall perish. 19 In your patience ye shall win your souls.

DESOLATION OF JERUSALEM; DAYS OF VENGEANCE

20 But when ye see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that her desolation is at hand. 21 Then let them that are in Judaea flee unto the mountains; and let them that are in the midst of her depart out; and let not them that are in the country enter therein. 22 For these are days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. 23 Woe unto them that are with child and to them that give suck in those days! for there shall be great distress upon the land, and wrath unto this people.

TIMES OF THE GENTILES

24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led captive into all the nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

1) captivity (we see this ending now)

2) Jeru trodden down by Gentiles.

This continues so long as the Muslims hold the Temple Mount.

In Luke 21:24, a broad description of what has turned out to be a long age is described. Though "church" does not occur in the passage, we know that while the Times of the Gentiles is in progress thus far, the Church Age also has been in progress, though the 2 times periods apparently neither start nor end at the same time.

I don't find in Mat & Mark this material about the destruction of Jeru in AD 70 nor this broad one verse summary of The Times of the Gentiles.

THE GREAT TRIBULATION

We know that the following is part of the Great Tribulation because Mat 24 says so.

25 And there shall be signs in sun and moon and stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, in perplexity for the roaring of the sea and the billows; 26 men fainting for fear, and for expectation of the things which are coming on the world: for the powers of the heavens shall be shaken.

THE RETURN OF CHRIST

27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28 But when these things begin to come to pass, look up, and lift up your heads; because your redemption draweth nigh.

PARABLE OF FIG TREE. ETC.

29 And he spoke to them a parable: Behold the fig tree, and all the trees: 30 when they now shoot forth, ye see it and know of your own selves that the summer is now nigh. 31 Even so ye also, when ye see these things coming to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh.

Contrast this with the Rapture teaching of James 5 (etc.) The Rapture is imminent now. We don't wait for signs. The Rapture is signless.

32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all things be accomplished.

The generation that does not pass away till, is the generation that sees the signs. I see no connection with our own times here, nor with the time of the Lord Jesus.

33 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. 34 But take heed to yourselves, lest haply your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and that day come on you suddenly as a snare: 35 for so shall it come upon all them that dwell on the face of all the earth. 36 But watch ye at every season, making supplication, that ye may prevail to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

"That Day" is said to come upon the earth-dwellers, not on the Church.