This forum is about wrong numbers in science, politics and the media. It respects good science and good English.
Good question,Gary.Why don't you try to contact George in Machynlleth and put it to him.I was up there earlier in the week, and it was bloody cold.I'm sure I saw a brass monkey looking for a welder and the windmills were n't going round either.
I am a bit confused by all of this GW stuff.
I mean; absent an 'optimum average temperature',to what temperature is all of this warming related?
Absent an 'optimum average temperature', how much GW has there actually been?
I wish to help; but, the GW believers will not help me in knowing how much we have to do or how worried I should be.
Since there has never been a stated 'optimum average global temperature', how do the AGW people know that we are warming higher than it??
Perhaps, the Earth is just warming up to the 'optimum average temperature' and THINGS ARE GETTING BETTER,NOT WORSE!!!!
Merry Christmas to all!
I'm not entirely sure it's enough to aim for an ideal MEAN temp. It doesn't take a lot to see that the average might be some reasonable figure while the max and min would both preclude life.
Anyhow, the aim is not to 'stabilise' temps, it's to control you and me, and eliminate what we used to call progress.
I'm looking forward to the time when the planet is as warm as it was during the Medeival Warm Period (sorry that didn't happen) / European Warm Period (nope that didn't happen either) / Random Disaggregated Collection of Odball Temperature Anomalies from Approximately 1000 years ago.
Perhaps society can look forward to making the same kind of comparative advances that we seemed to have made then.
"I want to help the AGW people save the Earth from global warming."!!! I will presume that you are being facetious, because their sickness is a form of living dementia which is always terminal.
An optimum global climate temperature? This question imposed on ordinary people by AGW's is full of oxymora and defines Them perfectly. 'One man's meat is another man's poison': if you put this question to, say, a Scandinavian and an African, you will get the same response but of opposite sign:- "Well, I wouldn't mind if it was a bit warmer/or colder but we have adapted to our part of the world so our Climate Suits Us. If it changes a tad, so what? We just adapt".
The homes of AGW's are all to be found in the temperate latitudes of the northern hemisphere; here, we are not challenged or unduly stressed by climate: is it any wonder that some of us get up to mischief? We are a big joke to much of the world so let us just quietly laugh to ourselves this Christmas to the refrain of Noel Cowards song:-
"Mad dogs and Englishmen go out in the midday sun"
In a similar vein to ideal temperature, the one I like best is the phrase "... the weather will continue to become more and more unpredictable ...", which is often touted round by AGW’s. As far as I can tell weather has always been unpredictable. If something is unpredictable, then how can it become 'more unpredictable'?
For example, I cannot tell you what the weather is going to be like in the UK in two weeks time (it is after all unpredictable) – if its 'more' unpredictable I still don’t know. What on earth do they mean by this?
I am just a poor confused engineer used to people describing what they want in reasonably exact terms
foster wheeler said:
"I am just a poor confused engineer used to people describing what they want in reasonably exact terms"
Welcome back the Spice Grils!
Trouble is, the more extreme AGW exponents really do know exactly what they want, what they really, really want.
If they told too many people openly they know that is not what everyone else really really wants!
These people are serious!!
Handy ideas to make us green and mouldy
BY now you'll be in a panic, wondering how to save yourself from the apocalypse to come.
After all, when the Profit of Doom, Al Gore, says global warming risks "ending all human civilisation" you'll have figured it will take more than a few low-energy light bulbs to save us.
Too right, so I've collected the best and most original tips of many experts on how to slash the gases they say are killing the planet. Follow this advice and we'll be, um . . . safe?
1. Get rid of humans.
Greenpeace co-founder Paul Watson insists we "reduce human populations to fewer than one billion".
2. Put a carbon tax on babies.
Prof Barry Walters, of the University of Western Australia, says families with more than, say, two children should be charged a carbon tax on their little gas emitters.
3. Cull babies.
Toni Vernelli, of green group PETA, says she killed her unborn child because of its potential emissions: "It would have been immoral to give birth to a child that I felt strongly would only be a burden to the world."
4. Sterilise us all.
Dr John Reid, a former Swinburne University academic, gave a lecture on ABC radio recommending we "put something in the water, a virus that would be specific to the human reproductive system, and would make a substantial proportion of the population infertile".
5. Ban second children.
Says Melbourne University population guru Prof Short: "We need to develop a one-child family policy because we are the global warmers."
6. Feed babies rats' milk.
PETA campaigner Heather Mills, ex-wife of Paul McCartney, says cows' burps are heating up the world and we should use milk from other animals: "Why don't we try drinking rats' milk and dogs' milk?"
7. Eat kangaroo, not beef.
Greenpeace says kangaroos don't belch like cows, so are greener and should be eaten first.
8. Shut industries.
Greens leader Bob Brown says we must scrap all coal-fired power stations and our $23 billion export trade in coal.
9. Wash less.
Says actor Cate Blanchett: "I have little races with myself, thinking: 'Oh no, I'm not washing my hair, I only need a two-minute shower'."
10. Sweat more.
The green-crusading editor of the (airconditioned) Age says we should turn off airconditioners in summer: "Our consumer society has long abandoned the fan or the cold bath as the way to keep summer at bay."
11. Use human corpses as fertiliser.
Robert Larkins, founder of the Victorian Environment Defenders' Office, wants gassy cremations banned and humans buried where trees can use their bodies for food.
12. Use coolies, not machines.
Climate Care is offering to offset emissions from jet travel by hiring poor Indians to use manual treadle pumps -- once used in British prisons -- rather than diesel pumps to pump irrigation water: "Sometimes the best source of renewable energy is the human body itself."
13.Ban cars on alternate days.
Local pollster Hugh Mackay says "cars' emissions are stealthily killing us" and we could "halve the fleet, at one stroke, by adopting the odds-and-evens number plate system".
14. Use horses instead.
The French National Stud Organisation says horses are already replacing petrol-powered vehicles in 70 French towns, and should be used to pull school buses.
15. Stop flying.
Green author George Monbiot says flying is too gassy: "It is becoming morally unacceptable now to fly to go on holiday."
16. Ban street lights.
Ivan Brooks, a mayor in Adelaide, says street lights should go off after midnight to save emissions.
17. Ban Christmas lights, too.
Spain's Ecologistas and Accion environment groups says Christmas lights should be banned before Christmas day, to save energy.
18. Ban Hanukkah candles.
The Arkada green consulting firm is running a "Green Hanukkah" campaign asking Jews to use one less candle to "save the planet".
19. End democracy.
Says green academic Mayer Hillman, author of How We Can Save the Planet: "When the chips are down I think democracy is a less important goal than is the protection of the planet from the death of life, the end of life on it. (Carbon rationing) has got to be imposed on people whether they like it or not."
I have more ideas, but you seem already to have gone green. Please remember, these people are just trying to save you from something we can only hope is worse.
But by the way, did you know the planet hasn't warmed since 1998? I suspect this will come as a relief.
One of the least attractive aspects of Green brow beating is the constant references to 'Your grandchildren won't thank you ....' and so on.
There are a couple of problems with that lament.
Firstly any grandchildren who may come to exist will likely not be best pleased with us if we DO follow the preachings and ensure that they are presented with a localised life of unprecedented poverty. Unless, of course, they can be so indoctrinated that they have no idea of how life was in our times and may have reasonably been expected to become for them.
Secondly, as a number of the comments on the Junkscience list presented by Gary confirm, the Greens don't actually want there to be much of a future generation created anyway.
Interestingly if no grandchildren are to be created we will not have to worry about what their opinions of us may be.
On which basis I can see no reason whatsoever to do other than eat, drink, consume 'carbon' and, in the face of such green miserablism, try to be merry.
If humanity self destructs, so be it - the greens would be proved right but the end would at least be more tolerable for a bit longer now without the extended tail of despair.
More likely, based on previous events, things will continue to develop in the usual haphazard way that humanity seems to be fond of. Should any of us be alive by then we will think that the kids are aliens from another planet and they will think of us a fossilized old duffers. And a huge liability to them and their lives.
On that happy thought, have a great 2008 everyone!