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This forum is about wrong numbers in science, politics and the media. It respects good science and good English.

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Re: Re: why does everything cause cancer?

JamesV,

>> Is it just me or is the cerebrally contrarian bent of this site and forum now attracting more and more net.kooks? <<

It depends on who you're calling a "net.kook."

Jim

Re: Re: why does everything cause cancer?

"Is it just me or is the cerebrally contrarian bent of this site and forum now attracting more and more net.kooks?"

It is almost as if denying the validity of AGW is becoming associated with the many ridiculous conspiracy theories out there. Mildly depressing, really.

Re: why does everything cause cancer?

It is almost as if denying the validity of AGW is becoming associated with the many ridiculous conspiracy theories out there. Mildly depressing, really.
=====

I'd be particularly worried about that. There are plenty of legitimate reasons for questioning the AGW scenario. Being associated with laetrile-proponents, 9-11-inside-jobbers, New World Order paranoiacs and the like will not help the cause.

Now, were I an AGW proponent, I could think of no better way to discredit the skeptics than to find a few high-profile skeptic sites and fill it with tin-foil-hat-brigade talk, but surely that's just my fevered imagination at work.

Re: why does everything cause cancer?

The inside job can be partially blamed on the environmentalists. They forced the use of an "environmentally friendly" flame retardant on the metal beams in the World Trade Center. That flame retardant blew off where the planes struck. The bare steel beams lost their fire protection and failed earlier than they would have if the older, proven fire retardant had been used.

=====

Let's be fair here. I somehow doubt contingency for full-frontal impact from a widebody airliner was included in the design specification for the building. If the impact ruptured the fireproofing I'm not surprised - environmentally friendly or not. Being hit by hundreds of tonnes of metal and fuel travelling at 500mph is going to break stuff.

Re: Re: why does everything cause cancer?

JamesV,

>> Let's be fair here. <<

Always.

You made me go back and look at the Nova/PBS video "Why the Towers Fell." I obviously shouldn't depend on my memory. The TV tower was on the north building. It started dropping first, indicating that the core failed first. The south building's outer wall fails first (due to fire-weakened floor supports), while its core resists the collapse. (I got the failure reasons right.)

Leslie Robertson was the lead structural engineer on the project. He designed, ". . . for the impact of the largest plane of its time, a Boeing 707."

Both buildings survived the impacts:
8:46 AM North Tower Hit,
9:03 AM South Tower Hit,
9:59 AM South Tower Falls,
10:28 AM North Tower Falls.

The South Tower lasted 56 minutes.
The North Tower lasted 1 hour 42 minutes.

Recommendations include:
Harden Stairwells,
Strengthen Fire Resistance,
Protect connections,
Provide Back-Up Supports.

To quote Jonathan Barnett, an expert on fire protection, "In fact, until 9-11, I was unaware of any protected steel structure that had collapsed any where in the world from just a fire."

Jim