Return to Website

Number Watch Web Forum

This forum is about wrong numbers in science, politics and the media. It respects good science and good English.

Number Watch Web Forum
Start a New Topic 
Author
Comment
View Entire Thread
Re: Solar Impulse project

One thing the NoTricksZone blogger seems to have not mentioned about this project, is that in addition to support people flying around in fossil fuel burning charter planes that follow the solar-powered plane, it has a pretty substantial "mission control center" operation described on this link:

link1

This mission control center is based in Monaco, and has a team of about 20 'specialists'. It looks like this arrangement will have a pretty big carbon footprint as it is going to be operating 24/7 for the duration of the project, which is supposedly going to be five months. This Solar Impulse 2 project is something like the Green equivalent of a space mission.

Obviously an ordinary plane doesn't require a mission control centre, which raises the question of what these specialists are actually doing, and this single page PDF document throws a bit of light on that:

link2

From the PDF document it looks like this team is doing things like checking for favourable weather conditions, including making sure that there is enough sunshine to recharge the batteries for each leg of the overall flight.

In the top right hand corner of the PDF it says "an idea born in Switzerland". I don't think this project gives Switzerland a particularly favourable image, other than amongst Greenies.

Re: Solar Impulse project

But Dave,

The airlines have Traffic Control Centers don't you know!

"Well, the Solar Impulse Project can use those control centers now can't it!"


Suddenly we are in the same **** snarl as every other discussion. There are people trained to identify problems and solve them. Then there are the people trained to solve marketing problems. Sometimes the two groups can communicate effectively.

Sometimes not.

Re: Solar Impulse project

The Solar Impulse project does use air traffic control centres, the same ones as the airlines. Some of the mission control centre staff are described as being air traffic controllers, but the job appears to consist of talking to the official traffic control centres:

link

I'm not quite sure what you're talking about when you refer to marketing people. You may be implying that the mission control centre is some sort of marketing activity for the project, designed to impress journalists and maybe it also gives Price Albert II of Monaco a role in the project. If so, I would agree that is possibly its main purpose.

Re: Solar Impulse project

Sorry. There is an engineering problem to solve: How to get people from point A to point B. There is a marketing problem to solve: How to get people to use the engineers solution.

Your analysis is correct.

The human powered helicopter is an example of a great trick. Some of the lessons learned can transfer over into other areas, but mostly it is a great way to focus on a particular part of the problem.

I tried to explain to my son this morning why it was that two umbrellas broke over the last year. We had purchased both of them at the Thrift store. They were both used. Part of the attractiveness of the umbrella is its lightness, that allows it to be carried in a backpack without undue burden to be available for the minutes when it is needed. If it were sturdy enough to handle all things forever, it would likely be really heavy and not so conveniently carried.

Handling all things is hard to quantify when you have a 9 year old and an umbrella that "springs" open at the press of a button.

The umbrella cost $1. The next one will likely be close to the same. I don't freak out when the umbrella is opened 20 times in 10 minutes when the price point is $1.

The Solar Impulse Proejct is not $1.

Ever.

Re: Solar Impulse project

I am reminded of the great marketing bonanza surrounding the Prius and the vilification of "gas guzzling 4x4s".
What was carefully omitted from the evaluation of the Prius was the fact that it needed special steels to carry the weight of those batteries which are a life limiting factor.
If one only focused on the cost of fuel and the pollution emitted in use, as one was supposed to and being lead to do by the marketing, then the Prius was the future. The best thing since sliced bread.
But of one looked at the "ashes to ashes" energy content and pollution, top of the league for the most environmentally friendly vehicles came, you guessed it, a gas guzzling 4x4 with Prius somewhere down in 84th p[lace or something.
The 4x4 uses all standard materials and its engine, being oversized for the task in hand (taking the kids to school mostly, or so it seems) last practically forever. Long enough so that its "footprint" is vastly more favourable.

Thus one wonders what we are not being told about the solar project. Obviously weight is a factor.... (is this what I recall from 12 years or more ago? wasn't their some circumnavigation flight that was going to be man-powered? I need to look into it.) so what are the materials used? Very light weight films from petrochemicals? Oops!

PS. With the BBC as it is today is it safe to segregate the "scientists" from the "Climate scientists"?

Re: Solar Impulse project

"Separate the scientists from the climate scientists?"

Are you suggesting that real scientists may start distancing themselves from the climate scientists?

This makes me think of a cartoon. Cell one shows the scientists cringing away from the climate scientists. Cell 2 shows the climate scientists basking in the glow of the "Fear they perceive" in their fellow scientists. "They are scared of our knowledge, we have power!"