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District 6 Wrestling Forum
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AA vs AAA Disparity

Some rambling comments and assessments-----------

Ron Stump did a great job with the D6AA rankings. Obviously put a ton of time and research into trying to figure it out with 27 teams involved.

The most legendary Black Knight of all-time was spot on right last year when he cautioned something to the effect that anyone who thinks AA is a cakewalk compared to AAA is badly mistaken or misinformed.

D6 Duals format----- what a farce. In AA, 12 out of 27 teams qualify. Sounds good, looks about right compared to similar school totals in other districts around the state. But just when you think D6 is on top of things (remember Dumb and Dumber??)--- they go ahead and declare that 6 out of the 8 teams in AAA will qualify for the D6 duals. Is there one team--any team other than the unbeatable CM Cats that have a full lineup in AAA? 6 out of 8--- take a look at who these 8 teams are.... is D6 serious? Why not put all 8 in and place 8 teams in the AAA dual tourney and give everyone a politically-correct participation trophy.

I feel bad for the AA teams that are schools with boundaries. I could have truly cared less about the comical arguments on here about parochial non-boundary school compared to the geography and tax area based public schools---- but now I see why Bellwood Antis (of all schools) is leading the legislative effort to separate them. St. Joe's is the D6AA wrestling tournament king and they should be with standouts from Bellefonte (several), State College, Juniata, DuBois, and Mifflinburg (two of those towns aren't even in D6)--- and openly one of those home school districts is a AA program; so the top AA tournament team in D6 consists of all but one of its highly ranked wrestlers coming from AAA "areas"---- really too bad that in cases like that one, the team involved doesn't voluntarily compete in AAA--- hey St Joe's would run away with the AAA tourney title just like they should coast to the AA title.

Truly a pitiful situation and teams with lots of young rising talent like WH, FH, PV, WB, GLEN, and PO (a new comer to AA but smaller than a number of fellow AA programs). Only thing those homegrown street-fight tough programs can do is keep battling and support each other at the right times. This is a farce but take heart if you are a fan of those teams--- places like Wyoming Seminary are looking to recruit and raid some of the transient talent--- that's the word on the street.

Individual---The AA cakewalk compared to mighty AAA. Hahaha D6AAA teams (8 of them) are part of an atrocious 28-team region (my apology to Cathedral Prep)--- but come on--- look at the 28 Northwest AAA region (6 teams in the D8 Pittsburgh league--- LOL). And 3 out of 28 total get to Hershey. D6AA--- very different animal regardless if the school is one with boundaries or not. 27 teams and part of a massive 76-team region. Yeah they take 6 out of 76 to Hershey. Do the math---- 3 out of 28 vs 6 out 76. The Black Knight Hall of Famer was more than right--- anybody who looks at this from solely a D6 perspective will see that the cakewalk is being in the AAA class while AA looks more like a meat-grinder that keep in mind has a team without borders at the top of its tournament food chain. The AAA structure and format in D6 is very close to being doomed and that event will lose money hand over fist this year--- look for a PIAA-mandated merger with another district or into a new region within the next two class cycles (4 years)

Re: AA vs AAA Disparity

Hey D6 Farce Master,

Definitely some good points in this post. It is clear that you have a AA bias and watch a lot of AA wrestling. With the subtraction of PO and BEA this year and addition of Juniata and Greater Johnstown, AAA does seem to be weaker overall and AA get a little stronger. No one ever thought that AAA was way stronger than AA when it came to wrestling in District 6 or the regional tournament. Your comparison fails to take a couple of things into consideration.

As for the AAA team duals, why not take 6 of the 8 teams to team duals. I don't see anything wrong with the 3rd seed having to beat the 6th seed or the 4th seed having to beat the 5th seed in order to move on to Tyrone. There have been several times when the 5th seed has beaten the 4th seed for the right to take on the 1st seed in Tyrone. I am not sure what all teams have a full lineup, I am pretty sure that Holidaysburg, Bellefonte, CM, and Altoona do. I think MC is forfeiting 106. You speak about Central Mountain like the mighty king of AAA, and they have been for the most part in the past decade and a half, but remember that it was Mifflin County edging out BEA for the D6 crown last year.

The AAA vs AA comparisons could go on all day. Central Mountain is definitely up there as a strong side. Mifflin County just beat #15 ranked Cumberland Valley (at Cumberland Valley, handily according to the scoreline), and Bellefonte (considered the 3rd or 4th best team in AAA) just beat Penns Valley (considered the 2nd or 3rd best team in AA and ranked #15 in the state in AA as well). So even though AAA only has 8 teams, those teams definitely pack a punch and have a strong lineup. State College, Altoona, Holidaysburg, Central Mountain, Mifflin County, and Bellefonte have pretty strong squads this year.

As for St. Joes and the private schools in wrestling, it is simply a shame to have them compete with homegrown programs. It is unfortunate and a travesty, enough said about that.

As for the AAA vs AA individual tournaments, the strength obviously lies in AA. This is mostly due to the quantity of teams and overall depth at the weights. However, the top 6 qualify for regionals and top 6 qualify for states (rightly so). In AAA, they only take the top 3 to states. Imagine being in a tough overall bracket with two absolute studs in your bracket? There is only one spot to Hershey then up for grabs. That is the tough thing with AAA right now. Not easy being in a bracket with Carter Starocci. One of the three spots is practically cemented. You have a little bit more wiggle room in AA where they take top 6 to states. If you are not wrestling your absolute best or don't have the best draw, still might have a chance. I do agree that the region is becoming a joke and will probably dissolve into a bigger region, or take top 2 to states (true second). Many teams have gone to AA (Bea, po, general mcclane, jersey shore, etc) and d8 has not been competitive enough to help boost the region.

Just my thoughts. Looking forward to more replies. Could be a good thread.

Re: AA vs AAA Disparity

IT is unfortunate that teams are going back to AA from AAA. Understandable but hurts the rural part of the state. To dissolve the AAA region and move those districts into bigger regions would only put more burden on the already strained finances of the districts for travel, lodging Ect..
Rather see the PIAA go to one class for whole state let districts have sectionals and districts for all the schools in that district then send top 3-4 to states. Now those that beat their chest that there is no difference between AA/AA will probably have chest pains at this idea LOL.
Myself and my friends who have been wrestling fans all our lives wonder how can these small schools even stay open, for us its a head scratchier. the taxes in these small rural areas must be ridiculous. Our taxes are, although we're the largest geographical school district in the state, but definitely not the largest student body in district 6.

Re: AA vs AAA Disparity

NCAA has taken away restrictions to transfer, I would like to see the Pennsylvania state representatives "Politicians" pass a law that allows any student male or female to transfer to any school that will have them with-in Pennsylvania and to be able to do it at a reasonable tuition. Remove the shackles on the public school's.

Re: AA vs AAA Disparity

not in favor of a 1 class for the state

Re: AA vs AAA Disparity

big d 6 fan you make some good points about the aa vs aaa tournament remember once a time when the aaa was strong

Re: AA vs AAA Disparity

When comparing AA vs AAA you have to ask this question if you are a District 6 Wrestler...."Is your goal to GET to the state tournament or to PLACE at the state tournament? If your goal is to just get to states...then you want to be a D6 wrester in the NW AAA Regional Tourney. If you actually want to place at states you absolutely want to be in the AA State Tourney....its not even close! It's a numbers game. It has nothing to do with bad coaching or bad kids, it's just in the numbers. AA D6 schools recognize this and are now choosing to wrestle with schools there own size in AA. Here are some facts from the PIAA Website:

1. PO and BEA by going to Double A went from being in the bottom 10% in size vs other schools in Triple A to being in the top 35% in size of schools competing in AA. Big difference and a good move on their part if they want to be competitive at the STATE level.

2. There are 93,000 more boys enrolled in schools that compete in AAA wrestling than there are boys enrolled in schools that compete for a AA wrestling title. This is a much large pool of boys to pick from which results in better teams.

3. Since there are only 2 division in wrestling (AA & AAA), AA schools compete "down" with single A schools. Triple A schools compete "up" with 4A, 5A, and 6A schools. When was the last time a Single A school (non private) won the AA state tourney? When was the last time a Tripe A size school (non private) actually won the AAA state title? The latter might be BEA in 1999 when they were actually the size of a AA school, that is why it was so impressive. Other than that it is the private schools or the 5A and 6A schools that win the "AAA" title. A true Triple A size school has a significant disadvantage at the state level.

4. Yes D6 AA has 27 schools. 19 of them do not have a winning record and 3 haven't won a single dual meet this season. Mostly because they are forced to wrestle local AAA and larger schools. Which just because of numbers they cannot compete with. The winner of the D6 AA tourney would most likely not place in the top 3 of the 8 team D6 Triple A tourney. And according to dual meet results maybe not in the top 4/5.

5. A D6 Triple A school has beaten 4 AA teams ranked in the top 25 in the state (and lost to one) and can't sniff the top 25 in the AAA rankings. And rightfully so when looking at the much larger 4A, 5A, and 6A schools they are competing against.

6. Yes, the Double A SW Region is possibly a tougher tourney to get out of than the Triple A NW Region. But keep in mind...there IS a Triple A Southwest Region that DWARFS the size of the Double A SW Region. Therefore, the D6 Triple A wrestlers will have to compete with them at states even though not at Regionals. Hence, the reason needed to ask the original question "As a D6 wrestler what is your goal? Get to states or place at states?"

If you took the 8 wrestlers in each weight class that did NOT place at the Double A state tourney and put them in a bracket with the 8 wrestlers in each weight that did NOT place at the Triple A state tourney....chances are that Double A would not get a single finisher in the top 8 at any weight class. Again, it's just because of the numbers game. Double A does not have the depth or numbers to pull from to compete with the larger schools. Coaches and schools know this and are no longer choosing to wrestle "up" with the larger schools and I don't blame them.

But please please stop trying to compare Double A to Triple A. It's apples to oranges and Double A doesn't stand a chance at the state level when compared to Triple A. You can even see it locally in the dual meet results.

Re: AA vs AAA Disparity

Looked at this post a dozen times. Pure spin. I could pick this apart point by point and win any reasonably measured debate with FACTS on this one.

Sheer lunacy with sine of these points or incomplete quantitative data.

But I do have a question since FACTS is almost surely a person with AAA affiliation and bias.

Do you know how many qualifiers each district in NWAAA are bringing to the regional tourney?

Re: AA vs AAA Disparity


Re: AA vs AAA Disparity


Thanks very much for clarifying. I see that D4/9 has 9 schools while D6 has just 8.

So understand that the 5th slot created when D10 dropped to 3 qualifiers went to D4/9.

Great for D4/9 kids for sure. From Clearfield to DuBois to Shik to Williamsport, you guys should give a big thanks to BEA and PO for doing what they should have done years ago and competing in AA. Those two schools now competing where they should be guaranteed the 5th qualifier in AAA would not go to D6.

Good luck to D5 and the D6 LHAC kids in the SWAA regional this weekend

Re: AA vs AAA Disparity

yep. D10 only has 5 AAA schools, D6 has 8, D4/9 has 9, not sure about D8.

Re: AA vs AAA Disparity

Decided to give the D6AA vs Predicted D6AAA champs a go:

106: Dubler (Glendale) over Allison (MC)
113: Arrington (FH) over Swisher (SC)
120: Ohl (SJ) over Fisher (MC) Note: Fisher was beating Ohl in the second period before getting pinned by him
126: McMillen (Glendale) over Sarbo (Altoona)
132: Witmer (SJ) over Smith (Bell)
138: Gibson (FH) over Courts (SC)
145: Dowling (SJ) over Porter (CM)
152: Holbay (WH) over Richner (Bell)
160: Kibe (MC) vs Stoltzfus (SJ) TOSS UP Series is 1-1 this year. I would give Kibe the nod to break the season series.
170: Brown (PC) over Myers (Bell)
182: McCready (HOL) vs Yingling (WB) TOSS UP McCready took 8th at AAA last year and Yingling took 6th at AA. I feel that McCready is better from his feet, I give him the nod.
195: Urbas (SC) over Franklin (SJ)
220: Johnston (SJ) over Dellinger (HOL) Note: Johnston beat Dellinger 3-2 at the Panther Holiday Classic Tournament on 12/15
HWT: Ryan (MU) over Simmers (ALT) or Davis (MC)

According to the champ vs predicted champ bout by bout prediction, I have AA over AAA, 11 bouts to 3 bouts. Trust me, there is no AA bias there. Would be nice to see these bouts though.

It gets trickier when you try to dissect the team race. For team duals, my thoughts are:
1. CM - more overall depth at every weight (everything went wrong for them in the semi-finals against MC, ended up winning 8 bouts to 6 bouts but lost)
2-5. Grouping of Mifflin County, Westmont Hilltop, Forest Hills, or Bellefonte. I feel it could be any of them in any order.
6. Huntingdon
7. PV
8. State College (tough to rank, smashed SHIK, nearly beat CV, but also lost to Holidaysburg)
9-13. Grouping of Glendale, West Branch, BEA, PO, and Altoona. I feel any of them could be in any order. Leaning towards Glendale, Altoona, WB, BEA, then PO.
14. Holidaysburg (potential and decent line up to compete with any of the teams above them)

Interesting, just my thoughts.

Re: AA vs AAA Disparity

Just a quick fact check in response to when a class A sized school won the AA wrestling title that wasnt private, how about Reynolds practically every year. They are officially classified as class A in every sport that offers it and it's not a private school.

Re: AA vs AAA Disparity

Great point. Accurate point. Awesome program for 50 years along Route 18 along the PA-OH line

Great respect for them. Class people every one I’ve ever met

Re: AA vs AAA Disparity

Reynolds is indeed a D10 and State Powerhouse, great atmosphere, coaches, system, ect. But some of their wrestlers, may not have started with-in the friendly boundry of Transfer PA.

Re: AA vs AAA Disparity

As a graduate of Reynolds in 1997 and a follower of D6 wrestling due to having family in the Southern Huntingdon area, I can tell you that Reynolds has it's own wrestlers, and if kids come into the program it's truly only because their families moved into the district. Pretty sure people are allowed to move, that happens everywhere, and I know what your are hinting at, and frankly it's just not true. The wrestling program there is amazing starting from the very earliest ages. And just to make it look less like a "homer" statement, I was NOT a part of the wrestling program.

Re: AA vs AAA Disparity

Just saying,
I heard Reynolds have 4 starting wrestlers from Greenville this year. That is why when they wrestled in the D10 duals, they threw 7 forfeits and 7 backups. I agree people move, but 4 people in one year doesn’t seem like “people just move”.

Re: AA vs AAA Disparity

I'm not sure where that information is coming to you from, the only wrestler with ties to Greenville is the Wilkerson kid who's family moved there app. 3yrs ago. Also if you get info from Facebook and such Reynolds high school has a "Greenville" address and most of its residents are in the Greenville zip code. I'm not gonna turn this into a debate. I have 0 doubt about the legitimacy of Reynolds kids being legitimately from reynolds as most of them have been in the program for years.